@bigmind Nah your taste is fine everyone likes different things and that's okay. The fact that you are keeping an open mind and looking to broaden what you read is a really good sign so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I do think our tastes may differ in terms of what we enjoy but I'm going to tentatively reccomend stuff that I like and just give some CW's for it you never know you might find something you really like in these. I'm going to have to split these up into multiple messages because of the character limit so don't worry if you have six alerts or something.

@Montero 

Japanese BL/Gei Comi

Yaichi is a work-at-home suburban dad in contemporary Tokyo; formerly married to Natsuki, father to their young daughter, Kana. Their lives suddenly change with the arrival at their doorstep of a hulking, affable Canadian named Mike Flanagan, who declares himself the widower of Yaichi’s estranged gay twin, Ryoji. Mike is on a quest to explore Ryoji’s past, and the family reluctantly but dutifully takes him in.

@bigmind Yeah I wanted to start with stuff that I was sure you would be cool with.

Not so shoujo love story - This is a GL comedy webtoon. It parodies a lot of shoujo concepts without feeling meanspirited or dismissive of the genre as a whole imo.

Alright now I am going to get into series that I do like but may not be your cup of tea.

Tokyo Babylon - This manga is really good it does have it's problems and the writing isn't always perfect but I think it's really good at building atmosphere and tension. It does feature an age gap M/M relationship that is uncomfy but in my opinion given where the series goes that's kinda the point. I can't say any more without spoiling it. The artwork and panneling are top notch and it left a pretty big impression on me after I finished it.

There is a VA'ed version of the manga on youtube that is pretty good and real free. Here is a link to it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkoHuCSx_MQ&list=PLkiEb9cYl_PZkc6Slp9nsvwH9LxYr2WjA

Hannibal NBC - This is personally one of my favorite shows and one of the best examples of an adaptation of a gothic m/m romance into the modern day. This series has a fair amount of gore but it is shot in such a way to make it look artful which makes sense with the themes given you are seeing the carnage through Will Graham's eyes. It's a corruption narrative and while the creator's influences of Anne Rice and Clive Barker are pretty clear there isn't really anything else quite like it imo. I would maybe just see how you find it. I love how it twists the police procedural and how it plays with genre.

@Montero 

I'll check out Tokyo Babylon and Books of Blood right now. I've actually rewatched Hannibal several times and always enjoyed how it kept me fully entertained.

It's funny you mention Little Mushroom because I actually have the physical copy of the first volume. For $20... it was an alright read. The plot and premise was good but I felt a bit detached from the characters and wasn't rooting for anybody in particular. Albeit, I read it almost a year ago, but it certainly didn't leave me with any strong emotions about it. The main character was a tad bit too dull for me and the relationship between him and the ML was just very cliché. The world building was decent though. Maybe it picks up in the second volume-- I wouldn't know since I decided paying $20 for the second volume wasn't worth it for me. If you happen to come across a copy of it for free, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about it and whether or not it got better towards the end. I saw a lot of reviews saying that it was a very heart-wrenching story, but nothing in the first volume was too sad, so I'm thinking that all of the good parts happen in the second volume.

I also bought Golden Terrace when I bought Little Mushroom. A snooze fest, unless you enjoy political drama or historical fiction. It turns out I didn't. The more you learn!

@Majestic4250 Hi there! My feelings on Mo Du are pretty complicated I'm probably going to DNF it tbh. I couldn't really do the topic justice without writing a full review for it. Things that deserve to die looks really promising I'll add it to my TBR pile. A tale of strategies for the throne is something I will check in on to see when it is done since I don't like reading stuff that isn't complete or not far off but it seems like something I could enjoy if executed well. 

You are the third person to personally reccomend QJJ to me so I'm definately going to check it out when it gets an official release. Is it going to be a polished up fan TL for QJJ or is it going to be an industry professional?

in*est isn't really something I go out of my way to read. I appreciate the interesting drama it can cause not only with how the couple grapple with how their sibling relationship has changed but also how they relate to their family once they start having suspicions/are found out. It has the us against the world thing baked into it which is pretty cool.

Honestly the biggest dissapointment for me was finding out that golden terrace is only available in physical copies since I don't have the space for any more books in my house lol. Which is tragic since I heard the couple in that are verse. What are you reading atm?

@Montero QJJ is actually fan translated but the translation really does the story justice imo. But it is complicated so you'll need character guides and a map which are available on cangji website. People even take notes at the first chapters cause you are bombarded with this new information which is vital for the plot. Golden terrace actually doesn't have a verse. It's actually a lie. I'm currently reading Joyful reunion by Fei tian and also To rule in a turbulent world is getting released this October at 28th by the same author Fei tian. But there is underage s*x since MC is currently 16 and ML is 22 when they first do it and it's pretty early on.

Joyful reunion is really good and the translation is complete. It has a harem vibe were MC is having s*xual hot romantic tension with different attractive men, even if there is only one ML. I'm still at book 2 out of book 5. TGCF by MXTX has actually being edited and there has been massive changes. You can check the audio drama since it fixed out the pacing issues. What didn't you like about Mo du? Maybe I could help you more. Maybe danmei isn't for you?

@Majestic4250 I'm a long time reader of BL from multiple cultures so I don't really think it's an issue relating to the gay aspect of danmei. I would say it would be a bit reductive of me to just give up on the genre just because I don't like Mo Du. I'm sure I've just gotten unlucky and picked several clunkers to my taste at least. Given the sheer amount of content available in the genre there is bound to be a lot of stuff that is really popular when the genre is having it's first big overseas boom. Junjou Romantica, Super Lovers, et al were really beloved and widely praised in the early years of the western BL fandom, and I never liked them either, so maybe it's a similar case here.

Speaking of Joyful reunion I would like to see a harem story with a poly ship or actual harem ending. Partially because the person that gets picked tends to be the most boring option available and painfully predictable. I might read it since it's nice to see a danmei that isn't obsessed with the idea that you love one person your entire life and can't like, or have liked, anyone else. So yeah might read that at some point. If you have any suggestions for a M/M or bis*xual harem media where it's actually a harem all the way through let me know.

Qiang Jin Jiu is getting an official version so the website has taken down the fan TL now. Glad the author will profit from it, though how much they get of course is unknown; seems most of that goes to the publisher, unfortunately.

- Chapter 67

This coming from our protagonist, who certaintly isn't being challenged on his worldview lets put it that way, and there is no awareness from the narrative of how ghoulishly evil it is to view other people like this. Because a dude wears eyeliner and cried a bit. Zero empathy. If Luo Wenzhou was intended to be a morally dubious bastard cop (sort of a foil to Wang Hongliang's open corruption cop, maybe?) then that might be one thing, but he's validated time and again in Jack Bauering his way through every situation. Ugh it just makes me miss NBC Hannibal even more because that show got it.

@Montero Have you heard of Shui qiancheng? Also i suggest you check out LSWW by Fei tian as his first work. Read the first 4 chapters which can be found on its carrd. You will be blown away by the s*x scene. And tell me your thoughts lol

@Montero after reading some of your review, I feel like you will not like danmei, if you think shous are not manly enough. I mean Fei tian's MC call themselves wives. This is after when you said Wei wuxian is not manly. I mean you would probably just drop danmei at this point, cause men being feminine is their culture and being called wives as well lol. It just seems to me men have to be 'manly' to be considered men in your opinion.

@Majestic4250 Please stop telling me danmei 'isn't for me' just because I haven't liked a literal handful of titles, most of which were insanely hyped up and thus bound to be disappointing on some level. It really feels like you just want me to stop talking negatively about books you like, and given you didn't really respond to anything else I was saying about Mo Du for example, I don't get the impression you want to keep talking to me tbh.

I think you'd have to be reading my MDZS review in pretty bad faith to come away with the idea that I consider WWX 'unmanly'. I dislike the way the narrative felt the need to completely defang him as a womanizing necromancer, but that's beside the point. What I actually said was that the Japanese tradition of writing yaoi as a violent heteros*xual relationship dynamic with a gay skin over the top is alive and well in danmei. WWX is a man who exists for femme readers to explore their relationship to pushy men, and that's fine, but I find that just as alienating in current danmei as I did in older Japanese works. The likes of Gravitation, Junjou Romantica, etc were just as heavy on having the bottoms be physically and emotionally 'different' to the tops in a way that mirrored gender norms around straight couples at the time.

Danmei men being more feminine would be lovely, tbh. Show me a gong who isn't pushy, possessive, stoic and desperate to flex on cannon fodder extras at every opportunity, like something out of western CEO romances. Show me someone with Wen Ning's gentle temperment who is the top in his relationship, a gentle guy who prefers to f*ck than be f*cked. How about both the guys are each others' 'wives' and they're verse, maybe? If feminine men were 'their culture', you'd think there'd be a little more variety to it, but what's there (at least in MXTX's works and a few others) is shockingly heteronormative, written for femme audiences who love the same tropes in straight romances... as I said in the MDZS review.

BL's gotten much better over the years. We've gotten a lot more translations of JP works that push the boundaries of 'acceptable' M/M stories among straight audiences, particularly as yaoi and geicomi have merged, leading to a wider variety of body types and relationship dynamics in BL. With that context, it's not that I 'hate danmei because the men are feminine', but mainly that the few I've read so far felt... old, and out of touch, in comparison.

@Montero I didn't bring up Mo du simply because i haven't read it yet so i didn't have the grounds to argue with. Being called wives in ancient china simply meant that one of them left his household and went into another but was attributed to both males and females. The male concubines of Chinese emperors were called, just that, concubines. Not the husband. Like for example Fei tian's MCs, literally by a man, example LSWW is called the wife. Also I'm not 'angry' because you don't like the titles. MDZS isn't even my favorite. TGCF and SVSSS are from MXTX and she isn't even my favorite author in danmei. Also gonna be real with you, don't expect verse in danmei. It's a rarity. Not a fan of geicomi. Just simple as that. Also there are sweet gongs out there you just have to look. Maybe you want the change to be similar to LGBTQ of the west with verse and what not but that is unlikely gonna happen anytime soon. It's their culture and it is different to the west.  Also maybe it's just me but bottoms not being excessively manly doesn't constitute to them being less manly in character. Recommendations like Mistakenly saving the villain. The selfish gene